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	<title>Democracy for Vancouver&#187; | Democracy for Vancouver</title>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>get some camomile tea for that tillerman, would ya?</title>
		<link>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/10/08/camomile-tea-tillerman-ya/</link>
		<comments>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/10/08/camomile-tea-tillerman-ya/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>missy</dc:creator>
		
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/10/08/camomile-tea-tillerman-ya/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
Maybe that would calm him down a little bit.
John McCain can&#8217;t believe that Barack Obama could ever be his equal, much less his rival for the Oval Office.
What came through last night was McCain&#8217;s unerring sense of entitlement to the Presidency, and his being absolutely appalled at the, yes, audacity of Barack Obama thinking he [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- sphereit start --><p><img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6jSCtuQ-LzA/SOzxUaUQ-CI/AAAAAAAADrQ/tKoGkNXf1So/s320/mccain+looks+askanse+while+obama+speaks+100708.jpg" alt="mccain obama debate 100708" /></p>
<p>Maybe that would calm him down a little bit.</p>
<p>John McCain can&#8217;t believe that Barack Obama could ever be his equal, much less his rival for the Oval Office.</p>
<p>What came through last night was McCain&#8217;s unerring sense of entitlement to the Presidency, and his being absolutely appalled at the, yes, <em>audacity</em> of Barack Obama thinking he could ever be even half the man that John McCain was when he was still wetting his diaper.</p>
<p>There were many examples of this, most prominently when McCain called Obama &#8220;That one,&#8221; and McCain&#8217;s many repetitions of &#8220;It&#8217;s not complicated.  I can do this.  I have a plan,&#8221; but without any specifics.  “America needs a steady hand on the tiller, AND I AM THAT HAND.&#8221;  (Did anyone else flash back to Dean Wormer in <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077975/">Animal House</a>? <em>&#8220;The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.&#8221;</em>)</p>
<p>It was most obvious, though, in McCain&#8217;s stalking around the stage, and his breathlessness and oftentimes incoherence as he tried to iterate all of the many ways in which this job is already his, save for a few formalities.  As Carl Wolfson said on our local Air America affiliate this morning, &#8220;He did everything but pee around his chair, marking his territory.&#8221;</p>
<p>Meanwhile, Obama remained genial and serious, and mainly on point except when answering some of McCain&#8217;s oft-repeated lies about tax increases and earmarks.  While McCain looked like a desperate old magician with no tricks left up his sleeve, Obama looked calm and presidential.  And won the debate.</p>
<p>As for Tom Brokaw: When did he become such a scared little man?  And who sold him this bill of goods on Social Security hook, line and sinker?  You would think a dedicated newsman such as himself would recognize that he will be long dead before Social Security begins to run into trouble - and any trouble it has is from the federal government&#8217;s general fund picking its pockets since Reagan and Tip O&#8217;Neil created the trust fund.</p>
<p>Mr. Brokaw, there is no need to cut Social Security benefits.  If we were simply to do away with the cap that keeps good, wealthy citizens like yourself from paying the same rate as minimum-wage fry cooks and middle-class schmos like me, Social Security would be flush and solvent until Al Gore&#8217;s head in a jar is running the great and glorious One World Government.</p>
<p>And the fix for Medicare is just as simple: Universal, single-payer healthcare.  Get everyone on the same plan and the young, healthy workers will balance out the old folks.  As McCain says, &#8220;It&#8217;s not that complicated.&#8221;</p>
<p>All in all, the debate was a waste of time as we learned nothing new, except for the fact that a few more people saw Obama and McCain in sharp contrast, with Obama winning over the undecided voters 2-to-1.</p>
<p>26 days (and one more chance for John McCain&#8217;s head to explode) to go&#8230;</p>
<p>Post from: <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org">Democracy for Vancouver</a></p>
<!-- sphereit end --><span style="margin-bottom:40px; border-bottom:none;"><a class="iconsphere" title="Sphere: Related Content" onclick="return Sphere.Widget.search('http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/10/08/camomile-tea-tillerman-ya/')" href="http://www.sphere.com/search?q=sphereit:http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/10/08/camomile-tea-tillerman-ya/">Sphere: Related Content</a></span><br/><br/><hr><h2>3 Comments</h2> <ul><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/10/08/camomile-tea-tillerman-ya/#comment-46368">October 8, 2008</a>, me<img style='float: left; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px;border: double 5px; display:inline;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/8e7268d24c827e739db46c31bfb5349c?rating=R&amp;default=wavatar' alt='No Gravatar' width=55 height=55/> wrote:</p><p>this is just fabulous</p><p></p><p>"Social Security would be flush and solvent until Al Gore’s head in a jar is running the great and glorious One World Government."</p></li><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/10/08/camomile-tea-tillerman-ya/#comment-46370">October 9, 2008</a>, <a href='http://www.d4v.org' rel='external'>John</a><a href='http://www.d4v.org' rel='external'><img style='float: left; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px;border: double 5px; display:inline;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/1b56286a36ffce2ad56f972779a23274?rating=R&amp;default=wavatar' alt='No Gravatar' width=55 height=55/></a> wrote:</p><p>Agree wholeheartedly regarding how to fix social security and medicare.</p><p></p><p>Removing the social security cap would amount to a tax increase on both employees and employers.  In order to lessen the burden to the not really rich crowd, you could have no ss tax on wages from $100,000 to $200,000 and then the tax kicks in again on wages over $200,000.</p><p></p><p>In addition, I think it is absurd that people like Cindy McCain with an annual gross income of over $7 million dollars can collect social security (if she were eligible age wise).</p><p></p><p>Above some level of taxable income, ss benefits (not medicare) should not be paid.  You could also have a sliding scale of Medicare B premiums based on taxable income.</p><p></p><p>But these are all basically tax increases on the wealthy and progressive taxation suggestions. If politicians even hint at such heretical solutions these days, they are burned at the stake.</p></li><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/10/08/camomile-tea-tillerman-ya/#comment-46376">October 9, 2008</a>, me<img style='float: left; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px;border: double 5px; display:inline;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/8e7268d24c827e739db46c31bfb5349c?rating=R&amp;default=wavatar' alt='No Gravatar' width=55 height=55/> wrote:</p><p>Heresy indeed. Haven't you heard that paying taxes is not patriotic?</p><p>ugh. </p><p>I'm tired of living in an oligarchy.</p></li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>i&#8217;m against home-schooling on principle,</title>
		<link>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/08/26/im-against-home-schooling-on-principle/</link>
		<comments>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/08/26/im-against-home-schooling-on-principle/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>missy</dc:creator>
		
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/?p=2328</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
but if we lived in Harrold, Texas, I would keep my son at home - or, more likely, move:
HARROLD, Texas (AP) &#8212; Along with normal first-day jitters and excitement, students in this tiny district started school Monday wondering which teachers might be toting firearms.
&#8230;
While some parents said they felt their children were safer, others opposed [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- sphereit start --><p><img src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6jSCtuQ-LzA/SLQ891vAWlI/AAAAAAAACfA/frhZjoc8n_4/s200/drug+%26+gun+free+school+zone+sign.jpg" alt="drug free-gunn free school zone sign" /></p>
<p>but if we lived in <a href="http://news.columbian.com/news/us/APStories/AP08262008news357024.cfm">Harrold, Texas</a>, I would keep my son at home - or, more likely, move:</p>
<blockquote><p>HARROLD, Texas (AP) &#8212; Along with normal first-day jitters and excitement, students in this tiny district started school Monday wondering which teachers might be toting firearms.<br />
&#8230;<br />
While some parents said they felt their children were safer, others opposed the plan, which appears to be the first of its kind nationwide.</p>
<p>&#8230;Harrold Superintendent David Thweatt said the board approved the policy in an October open meeting that had been publicized. He said the decision was made after nearly two years of researching the best school security options at the school, which is just off a busy highway and 30 minutes away from the sheriff&#8217;s office.</p>
<p>&#8220;When you outlaw guns in a certain area, the only people who follow that are law-abiding citizens, and everybody else ignores it,&#8221; Thweatt said.</p></blockquote>
<p>Needless to say, most mass shooters expect to go down in a blaze of glory; <a href="http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jOAQKzY-aOBqDspFkEAV_ZO65vZAD9273AOG2">they do not expect to survive</a> their rampage.  So knowing a teacher <em>might</em> be armed will not stop anyone crazy enough to plot and attempt mass-murder - in their insanity, they will try to take as many as they can with them.</p>
<p>And since not all of the teachers are armed, an entire classroom of children could be killed or wounded before anyone with a gun were to arrive to save the day.</p>
<p>But beyond that, putting guns in schools is just bad policy.  <a href="http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/factsheets/?page=firefacts">Study after study</a> shows that guns are much more likely to harm the very people they were intended to protect than they are to be used in self-defense or defense of others.  This is creating more danger than it could ever dispel.</p>
<p>We need to stop being so fearful, and reduce the amount of violence that we accept as a normal part of daily life - and entertainment - in this country.  That would go much farther toward protecting our kids than arming their teachers.</p>
<p>Post from: <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org">Democracy for Vancouver</a></p>
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		<title>this is why people make deliverance jokes</title>
		<link>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/05/16/this-is-why-people-make-deliverance-jokes/</link>
		<comments>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/05/16/this-is-why-people-make-deliverance-jokes/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 21:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>missy</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Culture]]></category>

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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/?p=1443</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suck.  I can&#8217;t seem to make the Daily Show video post here, though I did on my site.  If you&#8217;re interested in what some unbelievably uneducated West Virginians had to say about Barack Obama, click over to no fish, no nuts.
Now get off your ass and go outside!  Who knows how [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- sphereit start --><p>I suck.  I can&#8217;t seem to make the Daily Show video post here, though I did on my site.  If you&#8217;re interested in what some unbelievably uneducated West Virginians had to say about Barack Obama, click over to <a href="http://nofishnonuts.blogspot.com/2008/05/this-is-why-people-make-deliverance.html">no fish, no nuts</a>.</p>
<p>Now get off your ass and go outside!  Who knows how long this weather will last?</p>
<p>Post from: <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org">Democracy for Vancouver</a></p>
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		<title>help our community get a $25,000 grant</title>
		<link>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/04/19/help-our-community-get-a-25000-grant/</link>
		<comments>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/04/19/help-our-community-get-a-25000-grant/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 03:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>missy</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Education]]></category>

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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2008/04/19/help-our-community-get-a-25000-grant/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
The Case Foundation has narrowed the finalists for a local community grant down to 20 proposed projects, and one of them is in Vancouver.  
The Vancouver project is called Community Conversations, and is designed to help high school seniors develop projects that are personally meaningful and provide benefits to the community.
You can learn more [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- sphereit start --><p><img src="http://bp1.blogger.com/_6jSCtuQ-LzA/SAq3T26emfI/AAAAAAAABxM/uUag6_NmFmI/s320/community+conversations.jpg" alt="community conversations" /></p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.casefoundation.org/">Case Foundation</a> has narrowed the finalists for a local community grant down to 20 proposed projects, and one of them is in Vancouver.  </p>
<p>The Vancouver project is called Community Conversations, and is designed to help high school seniors develop projects that are personally meaningful <strong>and</strong> provide benefits to the community.</p>
<p>You can learn more <a href="http://miyo.casefoundation.org/community-conversations">here</a> and vote <a href="http://miyo.casefoundation.org/vote/">here</a> (vote for 4 projects).  Voting ends APRIL 22, so please forward this post to your friends before 11:59pm on Tuesday.</p>
<p>Post from: <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org">Democracy for Vancouver</a></p>
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		<title>yessss!</title>
		<link>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/11/14/yessss/</link>
		<comments>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/11/14/yessss/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>missy</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Education]]></category>

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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/11/14/yessss/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It looks like we may get a victory for direct democracy - and schools - here in Washington:
More than a week after Election Day, the vote on a constitutional amendment to allow passage of school levies by a simple majority has swung into the yes column.
A tally posted Tuesday evening on the state secretary of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- sphereit start --><p>It looks like we may get a victory for direct democracy - and schools - here in Washington:</p>
<blockquote><p>More than a week after Election Day, the vote on a constitutional amendment to allow passage of school levies by a <a href="http://www.columbian.com/news/state/APStories/AP11142007news232277.cfm">simple majority</a> has swung into the yes column.</p>
<p>A tally posted Tuesday evening on the state secretary of state&#8217;s Web site showed HJR4204 passing for the first time, 756,963 to 750,011, or 50.23 percent to 49.77 percent, with 68,726 ballots left to count.<br />
&#8230;<br />
Under a constitutional provision dating back decades, levies to raise property taxes temporarily - typically for a year or two - to support public schools must receive at least 60 percent voter approval.</p>
<p><strong>In the past eight years more than 100 school districts received majority approval for levies but fell short of the 60 percent supermajority.</strong></p>
<p>On average across the state, levies account for about 17 percent of local school budgets.</p>
<p>&#8220;My faith in representative democracy is growing,&#8221; said Christie Querna, president of the Spokane School Board. &#8220;I think that the message got out there that this is a fairness issue.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maureen Ramos, president of the Spokane Education Association, said that if current trends continue in the final vote count, the margin of victory will likely grow. About 32,000 of the uncounted ballots are in King County, which has voted 58.5 percent yes, the highest percentage in favor in the state.</p></blockquote>
<p>Seeing that in the Columbian this morning was a great way to start an otherwise gray day.</p>
<p>[emphasis added.]</p>
<p>Post from: <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org">Democracy for Vancouver</a></p>
<!-- sphereit end --><span style="margin-bottom:40px; border-bottom:none;"><a class="iconsphere" title="Sphere: Related Content" onclick="return Sphere.Widget.search('http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/11/14/yessss/')" href="http://www.sphere.com/search?q=sphereit:http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/11/14/yessss/">Sphere: Related Content</a></span><br/><br/><hr><h2>6 Comments</h2> <ul><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/11/14/yessss/#comment-42329">November 14, 2007</a>, bushtool<img style='float: left; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px;border: double 5px; display:inline;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/1b56286a36ffce2ad56f972779a23274?rating=R&amp;default=wavatar' alt='No Gravatar' width=55 height=55/> wrote:</p><p>This morning there was one of the most beautiful sunrises I've ever seen behind Mt. Hood.  Perhaps it was shining on all the young people that may benefit from this going in a different direction. <img src='http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/wp-content/plugins/tango-smileys-extended/tango/grin.png' alt='Grin' width='16' height='16' style='vertical-align: middle !important;' /> </p><p></p><p>I'd like to see the public educational system expanded to begin at age 3.  Would help working mothers and help children during those important years.</p></li><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/11/14/yessss/#comment-42339">November 14, 2007</a>, <span style=""><a href='http://www.nofishnonuts.blogspot.com' rel='external'>slim</a><a href='http://www.nofishnonuts.blogspot.com' rel='external'><img style='float: left; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px;border: double 5px; display:inline;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7e716e9d80d9f2de766fc063c6e791d?rating=R&amp;default=wavatar' alt='No Gravatar' width=55 height=55/></a></span> wrote:</p><p>I was talking about the inclement weather in my office right now, more than the actual meteorology this morning.  </p><p></p><p>But I'm glad we can agree on something!</p></li><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/11/14/yessss/#comment-42341">November 14, 2007</a>, bushtool<img style='float: left; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px;border: double 5px; display:inline;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/1b56286a36ffce2ad56f972779a23274?rating=R&amp;default=wavatar' alt='No Gravatar' width=55 height=55/> wrote:</p><p>Actually I just read another article that stated the levies almost always pass either on the first or second try with the super-majority and the schools almost always ask for all that they can get (the latter I didn't already know), so I hope this passes so that we don't have to waste the time and money on the unnecessary extra ballots.</p><p></p><p>I get disturbed when I get a ballot in the mail with one or two items to vote on because of the waste involved.  And that happens frequently since I am in Clark County but not the city of Vancouver.</p></li><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/11/14/yessss/#comment-42342">November 14, 2007</a>, <a href='http://clarkblog.org' rel='external'>Chief Wahoo</a><a href='http://clarkblog.org' rel='external'><img style='float: left; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px;border: double 5px; display:inline;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/35b6c712909357213885ce551cf92f1c?rating=R&amp;default=wavatar' alt='No Gravatar' width=55 height=55/></a> wrote:</p><p>This one is a victory we can all revel in, and I will take this teachable moment to emphasize that anyone who tells you that not voting is a good idea is an idiot, and deserves all the scorn you can heap on them.  </p><p></p><p>Your vote cannot count if you do not cast it, and many thanks go out to those of us regular and reliable voters who found a common sense issue to unite behind.</p><p></p><p> <img src='http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/wp-content/plugins/tango-smileys-extended/tango/alien.png' alt='Alien' width='16' height='16' style='vertical-align: middle !important;' /></p></li><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/11/14/yessss/#comment-42347">November 15, 2007</a>, <span style=""><a href='http://www.nofishnonuts.blogspot.com' rel='external'>slim</a><a href='http://www.nofishnonuts.blogspot.com' rel='external'><img style='float: left; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px;border: double 5px; display:inline;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7e716e9d80d9f2de766fc063c6e791d?rating=R&amp;default=wavatar' alt='No Gravatar' width=55 height=55/></a></span> wrote:</p><p>Bravo, Chief.  Peace.</p></li><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/11/14/yessss/#comment-42369">November 16, 2007</a>, bushtool<img style='float: left; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px;border: double 5px; display:inline;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/1b56286a36ffce2ad56f972779a23274?rating=R&amp;default=wavatar' alt='No Gravatar' width=55 height=55/> wrote:</p><p>It's a done deal, no more supermajority. <img src='http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/wp-content/plugins/tango-smileys-extended/tango/grin.png' alt='Grin' width='16' height='16' style='vertical-align: middle !important;' /></p></li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Prison labor SJR 8212 amendment revisited</title>
		<link>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/10/29/prison-labor-sjr-8212-amendment-revisited/</link>
		<comments>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/10/29/prison-labor-sjr-8212-amendment-revisited/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Economic justice]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Education]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Labor]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Voting]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[corporations]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[illegals]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Iraq]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[jobs]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[orwellian]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[prison]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/10/29/prison-labor-sjr-8212-amendment-revisited/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This article sways me, unlike the author&#8217;s intent, to vote no on SJR8212.  The author appears to have a significant vested interest in passing this amendment.  And he is a lobbyist to boot.  The author should have hired someone else to do his bidding.  Notice he doesn&#8217;t bother to mention why [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- sphereit start --><p><a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/336886_prisonballot26.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/adc/10101950A~Paul-Newman-Cool-Hand-Luke-Posters.jpg" align="left" height="291" hspace="5" vspace="3" width="229" /></a><span><a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/336886_prisonballot26.html" target="_blank">This article</a> sways me, unlike the author&#8217;s intent, to vote no on SJR8212.  The author appears to have a significant vested interest in passing this amendment.  And he is a lobbyist to boot.  The author should have hired someone else to do his bidding.  Notice he doesn&#8217;t bother to mention why it is good for &#8220;labor&#8221; nor who the &#8220;labor&#8221; is that supports the bill.  I think he may mean his company,  Pioneer Human Services.</span></p>
<p>It may sound paranoid, but I can envision an Orwellian future in which the state starts locking people up without just cause because by doing so the immoral mega-corporations can get their cheap labor.  People complain about illegals taking away our jobs, this seems to me to be far more threatening since it will be state sponsored.</p>
<p>When I was an employee for a big corporation many years ago, the upper management always was looking for the poor slob who was married with 5 young children with a big mortgage and lots of debt to hire, because they knew that he could not afford to lose his job and that once they got him on the payroll, they, in effect, owned him and could exploit him.  The same kind of sick mentality could take hold to exploit the inmates with an additional concern of the job being potentially taken away from a law abiding citizen.</p>
<p>In addition, I can envision people &#8220;signing up to go to prison&#8221;, not unlike what many do when enlisting in the military, so that they can obtain the job skills that otherwise they will never attain.  After all, people intentionally commit &#8220;suicide by cop&#8221;.  Why not commit a crime to get vocational training?  I know it is not rational, since prison life sucks (likewise being stationed in Iraq is no cakewalk), but neither is signing up to go to Iraq because you can&#8217;t afford to go to college.</p>
<p><span>And the proponents will argue that any problems arising from this constitutional amendment will be taken care of by proper oversight.  </span><span>I am skeptical of that actually happening </span><span>given how often we see failures of proper oversight (see Enron, Iraq, Katrina, sub-prime lending meltdown, et al).</span><span> </span></p>
<p><span>This is a troublesome and complicated issue.  </span></p>
<p>Washblog has a couple of articles, <a href="http://www.washblog.com/story/2007/10/2/25655/4731" target="_blank">pro</a> and <a href="http://www.washblog.com/story/2007/10/20/122942/79" target="_blank">con.</a></p>
<p>Hope others more knowledgeable on the subject will weigh in here and  help me get my ballot in the mail!</p>
<p>Post from: <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org">Democracy for Vancouver</a></p>
<!-- sphereit end --><span style="margin-bottom:40px; border-bottom:none;"><a class="iconsphere" title="Sphere: Related Content" onclick="return Sphere.Widget.search('http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/10/29/prison-labor-sjr-8212-amendment-revisited/')" href="http://www.sphere.com/search?q=sphereit:http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/10/29/prison-labor-sjr-8212-amendment-revisited/">Sphere: Related Content</a></span><br/><br/><hr><h2>4 Comments</h2> <ul><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/10/29/prison-labor-sjr-8212-amendment-revisited/#comment-41973">October 29, 2007</a>, Allen wrote:</p><p>If prison labor is going to be such a big issue, how about thinking outside the box?</p><p></p><p>We all realize that people can and do make mistakes. So a person makes one of those big mistakes and gets (example) 5 years in prison. If that person does not have a HS diploma, he has to have it before he is released, plus his 5 years locked up. If they have a HS diploma, then they would have to learn a skilled trade, plus the full time. If they have a college diploma, they can help instruct the under educated.</p><p></p><p>The second prison would be for the ones who didn't learn from their first mistake. From sun up to sun down they would be making road pack from big rocks. NO TV, etc. Just work them until they have served their full time.</p><p></p><p>The third prison would be a concrete wall and a firing squad. They didn't learn after two mistakes, society doesn't need or want them.</p><p></p><p>I know the bleeding hearts will find all kinds of excuses about this, but if it isn't tried, how do you know this wouldn't work.</p></li><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/10/29/prison-labor-sjr-8212-amendment-revisited/#comment-41980">October 29, 2007</a>, Aneurin<img style='float: left; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px;border: double 5px; display:inline;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/de0e5b4ced896acfe1cac3704dcd39a8?rating=R&amp;default=wavatar' alt='No Gravatar' width=55 height=55/> wrote:</p><p>Ah yes, Allen, death penalty for parking violations.  Just give it a try!</p><p></p><p>As I wrote earlier, I have some big problems with this referendum, and I would usually be supportive on this kind of measure.  On one hand, the state feels it necessary to offshore work to other countries to save costs, while on the other it desires to outsource inmate labor.  What I can foresee is a situation where there are no jobs left domestically other than prison industry jobs, either as guards or inmates.</p><p></p><p>Crime is down, but we're incarcerating people at a prodigious clip, making us number one in the world in the numbers and percentage of people incarcerated.  I could be wrong on this, but the prison industrial complex ranks second only to the military industrial complex in the amount of public resources devoted.  Many states are spending more on the prison industrial complex than they do on higher education.  </p><p></p><p>That's the truly criminal thing.</p></li><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/10/29/prison-labor-sjr-8212-amendment-revisited/#comment-41984">October 29, 2007</a>, Alllen wrote:</p><p>Aneurin, please give me examples of people going to jail for 5 years or more for parking tickets. That was not what I was referring to, but with your comment, I can see where you may need some cranium/rectal surgery.</p><p></p><p>The big increase in prison population is because of drugs. Maybe this problem should also be looked at outside the box. Or do you also have a problem with that.</p></li><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/10/29/prison-labor-sjr-8212-amendment-revisited/#comment-41985">October 29, 2007</a>, Aneurin<img style='float: left; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px;border: double 5px; display:inline;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/de0e5b4ced896acfe1cac3704dcd39a8?rating=R&amp;default=wavatar' alt='No Gravatar' width=55 height=55/> wrote:</p><p>Allen, I guess the Steve Martin reference went over your head, that's ok.  </p><p></p><p>Why are so many people going to jail for common drug offenses?  Do people really need to be in jail for drugs?  Really?  Or do they need drug treatment?  Now that would be thinking outside the box.</p><p></p><p>Look, back in the day, I thought it would be an excellent idea to just round up all the offenders and send them to a fence-less work camp in Malheur County, Southeastern Oregon. If they escape, oh well, no water to drink for a hundred miles.  </p><p></p><p>Back in the real world, we've got to do something about a burgeoning prison industrial complex.  Cuz locking people up forever for simple drug offenses isn't going to work.</p></li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Henry Rollins interviews Vidal</title>
		<link>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/08/19/henry-rollins-interviews-vidal/</link>
		<comments>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/08/19/henry-rollins-interviews-vidal/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Bush crime family]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Constitution]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Education]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Fiscal policy]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Foreign policy]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Impeachment]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Iraq]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Media]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Middle East conflicts]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Republicans]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Voting]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[War on terror]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/08/19/henry-rollins-interviews-vidal/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks to Be-Think.org
Part 1&#160;
Click here to view the embedded video.&#160;
Part 2
Click here to view the embedded video.&#160;
If this isn&#39;t enough of this old wise guy, there is a seven part interview of Gore Vidal at The Real News Network. 
Post from: Democracy for Vancouver
Sphere: Related Content]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- sphereit start --><p>Thanks to <a href="http://be-think.typepad.com/bethink/2007/08/gore-vidal-spea.html" target="_blank">Be-Think.org</a></p>
<p>Part 1&nbsp;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/08/19/henry-rollins-interviews-vidal/"><em>Click here to view the embedded video.</em></a>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Part 2</p>
<p><a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/08/19/henry-rollins-interviews-vidal/"><em>Click here to view the embedded video.</em></a>&nbsp;</p>
<p>If this isn&#39;t enough of this old wise guy, there is a seven part interview of Gore Vidal at <a href="http://therealnews.com/web/index.php?thisepisode=45" target="_blank">The Real News Network.</a> </p>
<p>Post from: <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org">Democracy for Vancouver</a></p>
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		<title>Gore Vidal has been busy</title>
		<link>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/05/15/gore-vidal-has-been-busy/</link>
		<comments>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/05/15/gore-vidal-has-been-busy/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 21:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Bush crime family]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Constitution]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Education]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Ethics]]></category>

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		<category><![CDATA[Free speech]]></category>

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		<category><![CDATA[Money Party]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Gore Vidal]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/05/15/gore-vidal-has-been-busy/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gore Vidal conversation with Michael Silverblatt (audio)
Lannan Readings &#038; Conversations
Wednesday May 9 2007 (1 hour 9 min)
Download audio file (gore-vidal-070509.mp3)
=========================
Gore Vidal conversation with Scheer on Cuba

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver
Sphere: Related Content]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- sphereit start --><p><center><strong>Gore Vidal conversation with Michael Silverblatt (audio)</strong><br />
<a href="http://www.lannan.org/lf/rc/event/gore-vidal/" target="blank">Lannan Readings &#038; Conversations</a><br />
Wednesday May 9 2007 (1 hour 9 min)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/mp3files/gore-vidal-070509.mp3">Download audio file (gore-vidal-070509.mp3)</a></p>
<p>=========================</p>
<p><strong>Gore Vidal conversation with Scheer on Cuba</strong></p>
<p><script src="http://flash.revver.com/player/1.0/player.js?mediaId:261377;affiliateId:0;height:392;width:480;" type="text/javascript"></script></center></p>
<p>Post from: <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org">Democracy for Vancouver</a></p>
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		<title>What You Should Know About Religion and Prayer in Schools</title>
		<link>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/04/07/what-you-should-know-about-religion-and-prayer-in-schools/</link>
		<comments>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/04/07/what-you-should-know-about-religion-and-prayer-in-schools/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2007 05:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Constitution]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Education]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Events]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[[ April 17, 2007; 7:00 pm to 9:00 pm. ] Americans United For Separation Of Church-state (Au), Clark County Chapter #88, invites you to attend:   
      
        "What You Should Know About Religion and Prayer in
        The Public Schools", a Panel Presentation by the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<table class="ec3_schedule"><tr><td colspan="3">April 17, 2007</td></tr><tr><td class="ec3_start">7:00 pm</td><td class="ec3_to">to</td><td class="ec3_end">9:00 pm</td></tr></table><!-- sphereit start --><p><strong>Americans United For Separation Of Church-state (Au), Clark County Chapter #88</strong>, invites you to attend:   </p>
<p>        <strong>&#8220;What You Should Know About Religion and Prayer in<br />
        The Public Schools&#8221;</strong>, a Panel Presentation by the<br />
        Executive Board of AU Chapter #88,  </p>
<p>         to include:</p>
<p>       Discussion of &#8220;Student Prayer&#8221;, &#8220;Official Participation<br />
       Or Encouragement of Religious Activity&#8221; and<br />
       &#8220;Religious Persuasion Versus Religious Harassment&#8221;,</p>
<p>on <strong>Tuesday, April 17, 2007</strong>, at<strong> 7 PM</strong> at the <strong>Clark Public Utilities (PUD) Meeting Room</strong> 8600 NE 117th Ave, Vancouver, WA 98662</p>
<p>The Clark County Chapter (#88) of Americans United for Separation of Church-State mailing address is<br />
P.O. Box 392,<br />
Battle Ground, WA 98604</p>
<p>The Clark Public Utilities building is located on 117th Ave, North of Padden Parkway.</p>
<p>For further information contact Hugh Shuford (694-5373), Juanita Greenway (686-0885/Gjuani@aol.com), or Dixie Ross ( 687-3429) </p>
<p>Plan now to attend and bring a friend!</p>
<p>Post from: <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org">Democracy for Vancouver</a></p>
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		<title>Let&#8217;s teach both sides!</title>
		<link>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/02/23/lets-teach-both-sides/</link>
		<comments>http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/02/23/lets-teach-both-sides/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Aneurin</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Education]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[national]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[schools]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/02/23/lets-teach-both-sides/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The earth is round.  No, it&#8217;s flat.  Let&#8217;s teach both sides!
The earth is billions of years old.  No, it&#8217;s 6000 years old.  Let&#8217;s teach both sides!
The sun is the center of the solar system.  No, Copernicus was wrong, the earth is the center of our planetary system.  Let&#8217;s teach [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- sphereit start --><p>The earth is round.  No, it&#8217;s flat.  Let&#8217;s teach both sides!</p>
<p>The earth is billions of years old.  No, it&#8217;s 6000 years old.  Let&#8217;s teach both sides!</p>
<p>The sun is the center of the <em>solar system</em>.  No, <a href="http://fixedearth.com/">Copernicus was wrong,</a> the earth is the center of our planetary system.  Let&#8217;s teach both sides!</p>
<p>Carnivorous dinosaurs existed millions of years ago prior to any human existence.  No, <a href="http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1489520,00.html">vegetarian dinosaurs</a> roamed the earth with Adam and Eve.  Let&#8217;s teach both sides!</p>
<blockquote><p><a href="http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/davidpostman/archives/2007/02/mccain_in_seattle_today.html">Q: Should intelligent design be taught in schools?</a></p>
<p>McCain: I think there have to be all points of view presented. But they&#8217;ve got to be thoroughly presented. And to say you can only teach one line of thinking &#8230; or one belief, on how people and the world were created, I think, <em>there&#8217;s nothing wrong with teaching other schools of thought.</em></p>
<p>Q: Does it belong in science?</p>
<p>McCain: Well, there are enough scientists who believe that it does. I&#8217;m not a scientist. This is something that <em>I think all points of view should be presented.</em> We have never been exclusive in that.</p></blockquote>
<p>Is it any wonder that our nation continues to slip behind the rest of the world in graduating math and science students?  With schizophrenic teaching proposals put forward by McCain&#8217;s minions, students are not learning science, but the historical arguments over scientific truth.  If this daily Scopes Monkey trial is what students are exposed to, at least they&#8217;ll become great orators.</p>
<p>Post from: <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org">Democracy for Vancouver</a></p>
<!-- sphereit end --><span style="margin-bottom:40px; border-bottom:none;"><a class="iconsphere" title="Sphere: Related Content" onclick="return Sphere.Widget.search('http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/02/23/lets-teach-both-sides/')" href="http://www.sphere.com/search?q=sphereit:http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/02/23/lets-teach-both-sides/">Sphere: Related Content</a></span><br/><br/><hr><h2>1 Comments</h2> <ul><li><p>At <a href="http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/2007/02/23/lets-teach-both-sides/#comment-11033">February 23, 2007</a>, g. kortes<img style='float: left; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 0px;border: double 5px; display:inline;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/c6df8331663244a5bf3c889f8d7173d9?rating=R&amp;default=wavatar' alt='No Gravatar' width=55 height=55/> wrote:</p><p>If they want to learn about Adam and Eve in the biblical context, they need to go to a church to study it.  It has no place in our public school system. <img src='http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/wp-content/plugins/tango-smileys-extended/tango/frown.png' alt='Frown' width='16' height='16' style='vertical-align: middle !important;' /></p></li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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