Keith provides a kind monologue in defense of marriage and the prop 8 perplexity.  I think there must be a gene out there that drives people to want to diminish others irrationally.  How else can you explain Bush and Cheney?  How else can you really explain why anyone would deny another human being the right to marry?

And here is a not so kind monologue by Pat Condel who provides an explanation that it is the “The Tyranny of Scripture” rather than genetics that causes the errant behavior of voting for Proposition 8 and other such atrocious acts.

It is amazing how primitive and inflexible we are towards one another.  We truly are “are own worst enemy”.  And if you don’t think so just read this article about stealing from a “little ol’ lady”.  Right now I would like to forget humanity exists altogether.

When it was Amaro’s turn to speak, he wiped his eyes, cleared his throat and talked about his own concerns. They were all about himself.

This makes me hope there is a hell.  That is where Amaro belongs.

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Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

3 Comments

• At November 13, 2008, Holly Forrest wrote:

  Good post, John. I liked Olbermann's comments. And I was equally outraged by the Columbian story about that scum Amaro and his concern about himself rather than any repentance.

• At November 13, 2008, John wrote:

  Holly,

  Thanks

  I read the Amaro article after posting about prop 8 and it incensed me to the point of adding the link and commentary to the post.

  It may sound simplistic, but if someone could come up with a medication that cures greed and selfishness, most, if not all, of the other maladies that afflict us would miraculously disappear.

• At November 14, 2008, missy wrote:

  The world is not all bad; proof: the juror in the case who is sending her jury pay to the victim. It's not much but it's a start.

  I hope everyone remembers her when the Walk & Knock food drive bags come out in the Columbian in the next few weeks...

Obama Pumpkin

So says our Representative Brian Baird and I quote him from a link to a story in my earlier article:

Baird said the legislation also will prevent executives who presided over the financial crisis from reaping huge salaries and bonuses.

“Any company that chooses to participate in the program will not be able to offer their departing executives exorbitant severance packages,” he said. “In companies where the government is making a direct purchase, it will also place strict limits on executive salaries and will end the tax deduction for executive salaries over $500,000. For the first time in a long while, adult supervision is returning to Wall Street.”

And as any 6th grader could have anticipated back then, Seeking Alpha has an article entitled, For Shame: $50 Billion of Bailout Funds Already Designated for Year-End Bonuses, which states:

As if the economic bailout by U.S. taxpayers isn’t enough to make you sick to your stomach, new information has come to light that several banks are planning to pay billions of dollars in year-end bonuses from the bailout funds they received.  Investigations are beginning into the nine banks that took in the first $125 billion – the same $125 billion that was supposed to be used to unclog the credit system which was preventing banks from providing much needed funds for individuals and businesses.

There are many feathers in a ruffle over this and New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo and several congressmen are furious that over $20 billion has already been earmarked as bonus funds for management and employees. Unbelievably, that is just the estimates from Goldman Sachs (GS), Morgan Stanley (MS) and Merrill Lynch (MER). There are six more banks that are also working on similar heists.

Here is their rationale for using that money: It is reported that the financial industry pays base salaries in the range of $80,000 to $600,000 and apparently that is simply not enough to keep some of the best and brightest working to keep their companies profitable. It seems that if they were paid only this meager amount, the company would risk mass defections. That would be a real problem…or would it?

Representative Baird, did you REALLY think that lowering the deductibility of executive compensation to $500,000 or $5 for that matter would REALLY stop the robber barons from stealing our (the taxpayer’s) money?  If so, given what is now occurring, do you think you continue to be qualified to represent us (the taxpayers) in Congress?

When is adult supervision going to return to Washington’s 3rd Congressional District?

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Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

flowchart for counting IRV Votes

Remember the primary debacle this past spring? Remember all the times that qualified, worthy candidates were shut out of an election because they stood outside the major political parties? Remember your frustration after Florida in 2000 or Ohio in 2004?

With our current electoral system, voters often must choose between the ‘lesser of two evils,’ instead of being able to vote for their favorite candidate. Ranked Voting (also called Instant Runoff Voting) is the best chance to move past the problems we’ve seen and take back our democracy. The best chance to institute IRV is at the grassroots, with us.

That’s why I’m inviting you to join us at the FairVote Rally on October 25th, from 7:00-9:00 pm at the Academy Ballroom, 400 E. Evergreen St. , Vancouver . There will be plenty of live music, from solo artists Alison Zopel and Justin Klump, and bluegrass band Fadin’ by 9.

Candidates for office have been invited to speak. There will also be a mock election, where participants will be able to rank candidates from the presidential primary. They will also be able to rank the issues most important to them, from debt and taxes to health care and housing. The results of the elections will be announced at the end of the show. All proceeds will be donated to FairVote.org, which advocates for instant runoff elections.

Our vote is often the only chance most citizens have to influence politics. IRV will give those citizens the power to support candidates or issues that would not otherwise have a voice under the current electoral system. Tickets are $10 at the door.

Feel free to email me with any questions!

Thanks and cheers!

sirgumball@hotmail.com

Note from David Carrier:

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

David Carrier
for State Senate
17th Legislative District
www.davidcarrier.org

Hello supporters!

We’re in the final stretch now- just over ten days to go- and the race is extremely close. Your help is needed now more than ever. In recent polls the 17th District vote is split 50/50 between Don Benton and myself, and between Governor Gregoire and her opponent Dino Rossi. That’s too close to call.

Doorbelling will be the key to our success. You are the face of this campaign. People are astonished to see a candidate and campaign volunteers at their door. Our doorbelling is the only thing that reverses the perception that this race is more than just the same old politics as usual.

A person at the door is the very best way to communicate that we really do care about our world, our nation, our state, our community, our people. Our future hangs in the balance of a very precarious economic situation. We need to elect candidates who have solutions to this global financial mess we’re in. We need to ensure that everyone will vote all the way down the ballot.

Can you help us with doorbelling? Please give Eric a call if you can make it. If you can’t meet us at the starting time, please just give us a call and we’ll let you know where to find us.

Please forward this message to other folks who care as much as you do!

Thanks so much for your support!
David

reply to:
Eric Horvath
eric@davidcarrier.org
work 360-892-2712
mobile 267-977-0749

next week’s doorbelling schedule:

Saturday 2:00-6:00 pm: Precinct 664
meet at Fisher’s Landing Transit Center at 2:00 pm
corner of 164th Ave. and SR 14

Sunday 2:00-6:00 pm: Precincts 483, 434, 560
meet at Salmon Creek Park and Ride at 2:00 pm
corner of 134th St. and I-5

Monday-Thursday 4:00-7:00 pm: Precincts 659, 682, 683
meet at Evergreen Transit Center at 4:00 pm
corner of 138th Ave. and 18th St.

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

From Clark County Elections Office:

November 4, 2008 general election - mail ballots now available

Ballots for the November 4 general election are now available at the Clark County Elections Department, 1408 Franklin Street, Vancouver. Election Department office hours are from 8 a.m. until 5 p.m., Monday through Friday. Additionally, the Clark County Elections Department will be open on both Saturday, October 18 and Saturday, November 1, from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Mail ballots will be sent to all eligible registered voters. If a voter does not receive their mail ballot by Tuesday, October 21, they should contact the Elections Department by calling (360) 397-2345 and request a replacement ballot. Replacement ballots can be requested in person, by mail or by telephone. Our mailing address is Elections Department, P.O. Box 8815, Vancouver, WA 98666-8815.

On Tuesday, November 4, Election Day, at 5 p.m., the process of entering the scanned ballot information into the ballot tabulation system will begin. No reports of election results will be printed until after 8 p.m., Election Day. Election results will be released to the public and news media at Gaiser Hall, Clark College at or before 8:30 p.m. Election results will also be available on the County Auditor’s Web site at http://clarkvotes.org. A sample ballot for this election is currently available at this Web site address.

Your ballot will be in your mail box any day now.  Here is a PDF sample of the ballot.  Watch for it and please vote.

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

Ten months ago, The Columbian, moved into fancy new $30 million digs at the center of what is growing into our new downtown. Their old facility was a squat, sprawling, stygian 1960s affair that had been hard to retrofit for computers (cables everywhere).

Guess what? Thanks to the George Bush economy, they’re moving back to their old haunt.

And worse, they’ve let go 50 employees and may file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

The Columbian was the reason we moved to Vancouver; my husband J. is a teacher now, but in his previous incarnation he was a journalist and then an editor, and The Columbian was his last stop on that road.

Maybe you want to rethink those two presidential endorsements for George W. Bush now, Scott Campbell?

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

David Carrier

Tim Probst

Deb Wallace

The Columbian has an accurate and strong endorsement for all three Democrats running for the State Legislature in the 17th Legislative District in Clark County.  As a former Chair of the 17th District Democrats and someone who knows all three endorsees, it is quite surprising to see a newspaper that endorsed George Bush in 2004 see the light and pick the most qualified candidates to represent us (who also happen to all be Democrats).  So not only do I congratulate all three candidates on their endorsements by our local newspaper, I also congratulate The Columbian on their wise selections.

The Carrier-Benton Senate race is especially important this campaign cycle as Kathie Durbin points out in this article:

Democrats hold a 32-17 lead in the state Senate. A net increase of one Senate seat in November would give their caucus a two-thirds supermajority and the ability to refer constitutional amendments to voters or to suspend the state spending limit. The 17th is one of a handful of competitive Senate seats.

Here is the Candidate Forum presented by the League of Women Voters which aired last night during the Obama-McCain debate (so I am sure many of you missed this) on CVTV.  It has footage of all three endorsed candidates in the 17th LD along with other candidates who are running in the area.  Watching this will help inform you about our local Clark County candidates for the upcoming election.

CVTV footage, obtained pursuant to the Public Disclosure Act, in no way is intended by CVTV, the City of Vancouver, or Clark County to either promote or oppose any candidate for public office or any ballot proposition.

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

Dr. David Carrier

I met David Carrier about three months ago at a friend’s house.  He was instantly one of those people that you feel like you know the moment you meet him.

I knew he was planning on running against Senator Don Benton in East Vancouver’s 17th Legislative District.  I didn’t know he was an economics professor with a PHD from Notre Dame.  I thought he was in his early 40’s.  I didn’t know he was actually about a decade older.  I cynically thought he didn’t know the challenge he was up against.  I quickly found out I was wrong.

We chatted for many hours that day.  Most people would have found a reason to end our meeting after a couple of hours.  Not David and me.  Since we were having fun just unleashing our stream of consciousness upon each other about pretty much anything and everything (but with a big emphasis on politics), neither of us felt the urge to wrap up our meeting in a timely fashion.

I came away with an impression of a honest, intelligent man who cares deeply about people  Someone with a lot of real life experience that had taught him many of the painful lessons of life.  Someone with wisdom and compassion.  Someone with lots of energy who truly wanted to do some good in this world.  What more can you ask from someone you want to be your Washington State Senator?

It comes as no surprise to me that many many others have been similarly impressed with David and are supporting him with their time, money and soon, their vote.  The DailyKos has a post here about a woman in East Vancouver who tells her story of how she reacted to David who recently knocked on her door:

“I am immediately on guard. Homeless guys, guys in gang colors, guys dressed in odds and ends don’t frighten me. A man in a tie on my doorstep? I am instantly wary. Three-piece suits plunder the average American far more than anyone else.

My eyes narrow. I can tell I’ve got what the Selkie calls ‘that yellow-eyed stare’ on. “Democrat or Republican?”

He shifts into gear, and I can tell he’s searching for a clue. Like you can’t tell how a zaftig girl in sweats and a nosering is going to vote. “Well, the Republicans have had their turn for a long time now. Democrat.”

He bought himself twenty seconds to impress me. Republican would have made me say No thanks, I can’t respect anyone who affiliates themselves with such lying hypocrites. “Okay. That’s good.” I look over my spectacles. It’s time to get serious. “What do you think about the Paulson plan and the proposed bailout?”

“I’m against it,” he says immediately. And I can tell he’s maybe a little frightened at my sudden ferocity. How many times, I wonder, has he knocked on a door and had to contend with ignorance or apathy? And he’s still looking peppy. Bright-eyed. Interested.

This guy has the public-service bug. It might get knocked out of him, but he’s got it now.

My heart suddenly hurts…”

The above is an excerpt from Lilith Saintcrow’s blog post which can also be found in its entirety on her blog here.

If you are paying attention to what is happening in Washington D.C., it is quite apparent we are experiencing a failure of leadership on a massive scale.  It is time that we start holding our elected leaders accountable by supporting only candidates who are willing to represent, we the voters, and not just those with money and power.  David Carrier has refused PAC money.  He is not afraid to speak the truth about what is happening.  Most importantly to me, I believe he is a person of principle who will not sell his soul when a situation to do so arises.  This is the kind of person that deserves our support and our vote.

We need a new kind of politics and a new kind of politician in order to create a new kind of world.  As Confucious says, A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Voting for David Carrier is “a single step” in that journey to a new kind of world.

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

3 Comments

• At October 2, 2008, Pat wrote:

  I think a lot of us in the 17th really appreciate David running for our senate seat. He is both principled and extremely knowledgeable. That is on top of being a truly caring people person. I don't think we could have a better candidate.

• At October 16, 2008, Chuck wrote:

  David Carrier Remarkable My wife and I started to attend the 17th LD meeting and we heard Doctor David Carrier speak. It is scary to realize the people we have in office are so shrouded in complacency. David communicated concerns that were my concerns. Lobbyists and deregulators have been destroying this country from within, like a cancer. He is the only person seeking a senate position that is not on someone’s payroll. He exhibits strong morals, ethics and sincerity, and with his grasp of the issues we face I have been completely impressed. His display of spirit and energy to help people is exactly what we need in these trying times. Unlike his counterpart, who after 14 years in office has become complacent to his obligation to the improvement of community.

  Doctor David Carrier's economic education and background has prepared over him as a leader. I spent 26 plus years in the Army and I know when someone has the ability to lead which is the ability to influence others to accomplish a mission, and caring leadership comes from a professional. David Carrier is both caring and a leader.

• At October 17, 2008, John wrote:

  It is scary to realize the people we have in office are so shrouded in complacency.

  Complacency is a very good description of what has gone haywire in America.

This is a sign that I noticed yesterday morning off Andresen Road.

This is called using your brain?

I am an advocate for free speech. But sometimes it is hard to swallow. This is one of those sometimes.

On the positive side, perhaps people will use their brains when they see this and realize that supporting McCain takes us in a dangerous and backward direction.

What do you think?

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

6 Comments

• At September 28, 2008, Cherish DesRochers wrote:

  I saw a similar sign near costco...I wasn't impressed. I am not a fan of negative politics.

• At September 28, 2008, John wrote:

  That is where this sign was yesterday. Didn't want to possibly impugn Costco by mentioning them because of its proximity to their location but it is not on their property and so they are not responsible in any way.

• At September 28, 2008, Truth wrote:

  In Whitman County, the radical, right-wing, racist, hate-mongers are burning Obama signs. They burned a 4 ft. by 8 ft. sign in the middle of Highway 27, and racist graffiti was scrawled on its replacement. Now that’s real hate (which is spurred on and encouraged by the radical right-wing blogs in eastern Washington).

• At September 29, 2008, Spanky wrote:

  The origin of the neo-con may be from a radical, extremist, liberal. However, what the meaning of "use your brain" has to do with anything I can't guess. I thought liberals use their brains and conservatives use their guns..

• At September 29, 2008, Cherish DesRochers wrote:

  I had someone write "sucks" below my political sticker on my car window. I thought it was crossing the line. I felt a a little violated & some anger. I quickly realized that my anger was what they wanted, and peeled off the portion that said 'sucks'.

  I wish people would grow up. I feel like it's 'bloods & crips' thing out there with all these signs.

• At September 29, 2008, Rosy wrote:

  The 3rd District psychologist voted for the bailout.

  Doesn't matter what his constituents think...

  Have to give Republicans some credit on this one ...

United States House of Representatives

Below is a fundraising appeal from Representative Baird:

Dear John,

The Primary election of last month brought good news and new challenges.

The good news is that with your help we prevailed in the primary in the 3rd Congressional District with a majority vote in a field of four candidates. I am grateful for that result and for your support in making it possible.

Our new challenges are two-fold. First, while the primary victory reflected a majority of votes cast, that majority just exceeded fifty percent, suggesting we have more work to do to get our positive, common sense message to voters throughout the district.

The other challenge we face is the proven fundraising ability and core group of supporters backing our opponent. A self described “Ron Paul” Republican, he is at the fringes of his own party in some respects, but he will also have an energized base of supporters and the potential to raise large amounts of funds in a short period.

Until now, I have focused virtually all of my time and energy on policy matters of importance to our district and nation. In fact, today I led the successful effort in the House of Representatives to extend for two years the sales tax deductability for Washington residents. As a result, our fundraising efforts have not been at full throttle. That has to change now and I will need your help.

Our projections suggest we need to spend at least two hundred thousand dollars in media for the general election. Beyond that, however, we need to be prepared to invest substantially more if the national supporters of our opponent choose to make this one of their specific targets.  In fact, it is possible that our overall race could approach the million dollar mark.

That is why I am writing to ask for your urgent and generous help.

We plan to make major purchases of television, radio, newspapers and mail pieces within the next few weeks. Your support today will make that possible.

If you have already contributed prior to the primary, let me thank you again for your support and ask you to lend a hand once again now that we are on to the general election.  If you have yet to send a contribution this year, let me ask you to do so today and let me ask that you be as generous in your support as the current economic times will allow.

Thanks for your support.

Sincerely,

Brian Baird

With the most recent FEC reporting showing Brian Baird’s campaign fund balance of $969,203, it is rather difficult to take Representative Baird’s appeal for money seriously.

Representative Baird, I don’t care one wit about the sales tax deduction referred to in your letter.  If you think that is worth mentioning over the important issues confronting us, it is beyond comprehension why anyone would vote for you.  But then you and I both know that the majority of Americans are sleepwalking through life and just pull the lever for the “D” or the “R” regardless of whether either one of them deserves their vote.

How about instead of a sales tax deduction, giving me the money back from my bank stocks that just went in the toilet?  The Federal government, of which you are an employee elected to help operate, just failed miserably to properly regulate one of the hands that is unfortunately feeding you.  I will skip all the other reasons not to support or vote for you.  They are now as worn out as the reference to your sales tax deduction.

PS:  I know you are in good company with regard to the misdirection of our country and our government and therefore only deserve a tiny portion of the blame.

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

3 Comments

• At September 30, 2008, Pat wrote:

  John it bothers me that Brian Baird was in league with financial services is making it harder on the average citizen to deal with credit issues. His take was that we should live within our means and be responsible to make good our debts not matter how difficult rather than find relief in bankruptcy. I agree with that as far as it is possible, but many folks get themselves into financial boxes due to job losses and medical problems that are unforeseen. Our current financial problems were not unforeseen by the financial services industry; just ignored. Now that the disaster of their greed in upon us, Brian is now taking a different, less intense tone with them than he did with us. If he had even sponsored legislation to educate citizens in financial matters it would have helped, but I don't recall him doing that.

• At September 30, 2008, John wrote:

  Very good point Pat!

  Representative Baird would say that the bankruptcy legislation was necessary because people were abusing the law and thereby the creditors (banks et al) were getting screwed.

  In the case of the current financial crisis, Baird says:

  Without decisive action, most experts believe credit markets will freeze. The result will be that families won’t be able to take out basic home and car loans, small businesses won’t be able to make their payrolls, parents will struggle to send their children to college, and credit card interest rates will soar.

  First I'd like to know who "most experts" are and whether they have a biased self-interest in bailing out these financial institutions.

  Secondly few are recommending that our government do nothing and risk a massive crisis. The objection is how it is being done. Just like creditors that take over management of a business when it goes bankrupt, the government should takeover these institutions and oversee their operation until the crisis is over. If taxpayer funds are needed, that decision should be made on a case by case basis.

  Thirdly this debacle is just one of many many instances of corruption and failure on the part of our government to carry out its responsibilities. Our elected officials (most of them) need to pay a price for this gross mismanagement of their responsibilities by losing their jobs.

• At September 30, 2008, John wrote:

  Here are a couple experts that see this quite differently than "most experts".

  Below is Hartmann's Air America show on the crisis:

  [audio:http://www.democracyforvancouver.org/wp-content/uploads/HartmannShow-(29-9-2008)b.mp3]

[Show as slideshow]

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

Click to enlarge

As per The Columbian, construction of the new shelter facility for the Humane Society of SW Washington in East Vancouver will begin in September.  There will be a groundbreaking ceremony on September 10 at 1:30pm.  The new facility will be located at 912 N.E. 192nd Ave.

Photo credit

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

1 Comments

• At August 26, 2008, Bridget Pilloud wrote:

  Great News! Congratulations Humane Society for SW Washington!

From Kay Ellison of Vancouver for Peace:

Hi all!

We are excited about the upcoming Vancouver Peace and Justice Fair on Saturday, September 13th at Esther Short Park!   We hope you are planning to come!

How can you help and be part of this cool day?    There are 3 main ways:

1.  If you are part of a group that works for peace and justice, why not ask them to participate in the fair?   Perhaps you have already signed up.  There are over 40 groups already signed up who will be there with tables and information about their groups!  See who has already signed up by looking at the website under the tab:  Reserve a Space.  The form to send in can be printed from our website www.vancouverpeaceandjusticefair.org

2.  Volunteer to help on the day of the fair.   We need people to be at the headquarters table, at the children’s area, put up and take down sandwich board signs, “traffic” directors, the Vancouver for Peace table, and even as reenactors of people of peace.  Contact  Kay Ellison with the times you are interested in doing any of this.  We need help a few people at a time from 7:30-6:30.

3.  Last, we need posters put up all over town!  We have some colored 11 x 17 posters already, and also have where you can download and print posters on our website:  11 x 17, letter size, and small ones that are 4 to a page.  See our website www.vancouverpeaceandjusticefair.org to print a poster!

Looking forward to hearing from you, and seeing you at the fair !   Kay Ellison

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

Steps of the Olympia Capitol building

Jim Dunn apparently doesn’t accept reality too well.  Or at the very least missed a lesson or two in statistical probability.  In either case with only 18.4 of the vote so far in the primary, it will take more than some Republicans voting late for him to return to Olympia in this lifetime.  And as The Columbian states, it is pathetic that Dunn doesn’t know when to call it quits.  But then most finding themselves in his circumstances never would have run for reelection in the first place.

Hopefully this brings at least a little closure or recompense for the women he may have harmed with his apparently inappropriate behavior.

No matter who replaces Dunn in the general election, it will be a huge improvement.  And to the voters of the 17th Legislative District, shame on you for electing him in the first place.  And to Representative Dunn, please let the door hit you on the way out.

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

Kayaker Carrier in action

David Carrier ended last night’s election tally with a very respectable 47% of the vote against Benton.  Benton is an incumbent with gobs of special interest money.  Carrier is a newcomer to politics with limited resources and lots of energy.

Why is Carrier giving Benton a run for his money (pun intended)?  It seems the tired old Republican talking point of “no taxes” is not resonating any longer with the voting public.  And that is pretty much all the Republicans can come up with anymore for what they are about.

Nobody likes taxes.  But death and taxes are inevitable and in the case of the latter, play an important role in the quality of our lives.  Without reasonable taxes, our community is bound to suffer adverse consequences such as having a poor educational system, overcrowded roads, underfunded police, etc.

The emphasis should not be simplistic slogans against taxes but rather working towards a government that efficiently makes things better for its citizenry.  Government that is accountable and efficient are the keys to a better future, not starving government to the point that it no longer can operate in a fashion that is beneficial to us as a community.

David Carrier has tapped into this and based on last night’s results, it is resonating well with the people of the 17th legislative district.

Surf on over to his website and find out why life is about more than death and taxes.

Carrier press release on primary results (collapsible, click to view)

Post from: Democracy for Vancouver

1 Comments

• At August 20, 2008, Pat Campbell wrote:

  While some try to keep the public's focus on taxes, the real hits in SW Washington have been energy deregulation (Enron and its affect on our monthly electric bill; mine has roughly doubled), encouragement of sprawl (Vancouver can basically afford only to keep up its arterial system now), deregulation of the financial services industries (insurance, investment funds, mortgages, credit lending), and a huge overhang of unfunded mandates from infrastructure and maintenance needs to misguided educational directives . That is not to mention an ill planned, incompetently directed, money sucking war. We need more folks like David, Tim Probst, Deb Wallace, and Debbie Peterson to show us the way through this in our cities, counties, states, and nationally. I'm glad that we are getting some well qualified people to run for office regardless of party or party partisanship in lieu of common sense (basically a church in Elephant or Jack Ass form).

  That should stir the hive up John!