Democracy for Vancouver

10 Comments so far (Add 1 more)

1. Slim, if you would re-word your comment #2,( that guns don’t kill people:) you might get more people to agree with you. A firearm does not load itself, aim and pull the trigger by itself. It takes a person to do that. Same as a hammer driving nails into wood. It takes a person to swing the hammer.

   I do agree with you that mentally unstable people should not have access, same as children, to firearms. Also same for all criminals. But what about the people who are law abiding citizens? Are you trying to take their rights away? A lot of American citizens have died protecting our rights, and because of those rights, a lot of American citizens have also died.

   But to call every person who is responsible, law abiding, and owns a firearm a F**king gun nut is wrong. Not all gun owners think that a firearm is more important that human life. Just maybe, they happen to think that their life, and loved ones life is more important than the person breaking into your home.

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   1. Above comment written by Allen on February 12th, 2008 at 5:14 am (replies, if any, are attributed separately above).

2. A lot of American citizens have died protecting our rights, and because of those rights, a lot of American citizens have also died.

   You’re right - because of the Second Amendment, thousands of innocents die each year. Just look at how many shootings I could find in the news for one week on Google News in not more than 10 minutes.

   I have never understood why people cherish their guns more than they cherish the lives of the people those guns kill. Guns are too dangerous to be so easily purchased, without more regulation as to how they are bought and stored and without sufficient penalties for those who let their guns get into the wrong hands.

   I know we will continue to disagree on this, Allen, but I simply cannot understand why someone would willingly, happily buy into the culture of violence by buying a gun. It makes as little sense to me as people defending themselves by buying a personal gas mask and a few canisters of zyclon-B - they’ve got their mask, so what the hell is the problem? If you don’t get yourself a mask, well that’s just your fault, isn’t it?

   Our society is dangerous enough, what with 30,000 people dying in car accidents every year and tens of thousands more dying from the respiratory effects of pollution from manufacturing and power plants. Those things are not going to go away - they are too imbedded in our day-to-day living, and what we’ve come to require to work and live.

   Why do we need to throw into the mix a tool that has no other purpose but to kill? Look at how much more harm than good they guns do. When is the last time you used one of your guns to save a life?

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   2. Above comment written by slim on February 12th, 2008 at 2:25 pm (replies, if any, are attributed separately above).

3. Anecdotal evidence at best but…

   An in-law commits suicide with a shotgun

   Husband of cousin accidentally shoots and injures his friend while hunting and drinking too much

   Neighbor down the street is threatened with a firearm by a jealous boyfriend

   Alcoholic father chases his son around the backyard shooting at him while in an alcohol blackout

   Mother of a high school classmate is murdered by their gardener with a handgun

   Father of a high school classmate murders his entire family with a rifle

   The above are instances right off the top of my head that have occurred in my personal life, not events I have read about in the newspaper.

   I cannot think of one instance in my life of hearing about someone being saved by having a gun in their house or in their possession. And it would surprise me if others did not have similar experience histories as mine.

   Not saying guns don’t serve to protect you. Just saying that the evidence is overwhelming that guns cause much, much more harm to others accidentally and intentionally than the protection they provide from the harm being caused by others.

   We should try to reduce gun violence in every way we can and one of the ways is to make them much harder to possess and use irresponsibly.

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   3. Above comment written by bushtool on February 12th, 2008 at 4:41 pm (replies, if any, are attributed separately above).

4. I’m a lily white girl from the chichi part of town, and the only time I’ve ever had a gun pointed at me was when a sheriff’s deputy, responding to a silent alarm, snuck into my house when I was in high school and pointed his big-ass nickel-plated revolver in my face. Evidently many burglars end their home invasions by thoughtfully unloading the victim’s dishwasher (what I was doing when the deputy decided I was the threat).

   Around the same time, some rednecks drove by our house and took potshots with a .22 into our yard during a touch football game, and luckily missed my brother and all his friends, but killed our dog.

   And, in a teen-aged rage-fest with my mom, my brother threatened suicide with his duck hunting shotgun, actually pointing it under his chin with all of us watching.

   So my personal, anecdotal experience with guns has been 100% negative as well (except for getting my rifleman’s badge at camp - I admit that was fun). In this country, we’ve equated weapons with fun for far too long, and it’s become a pathology.

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   4. Above comment written by slim on February 13th, 2008 at 10:15 am (replies, if any, are attributed separately above).

5. Slim, ref#2. According to you, any law abiding citizen who happens to purchase a firearm is “buying into a culture of violence?” I’m sorry but I cannot agree with you on that statement. No one knows exactly how many households, or people have firearms. However, when a small group of people abuse things, everyone gets tainted.

   There are enough laws on the books now about firearms, start having the law enforcement agency enforce the existing laws. I was raised with loaded firearms around, (on a farm) and learned real fast to respect them. And as an adult I also have firearms, plus a CWP. I have never, and all of my friends who have a CWP, have never been in trouble over firearms. I have mine for one reason only, self protection if some scum bag breaks into my house. I hope and pray that never happens, but yes, I will use my self protection to protect myself.

   If you, and other anti gun people can promise me that no one will break into my house, or any other house, then we might find some common ground on the issue of/for firearms. Until then, I’m sorry, but no one will change my mind that I cannot protect myself and my loved ones, and my property. Is someones life more important than my property, you may ask. Well, ask the punks who break into houses what is more important, their life or what they are trying to steal. It was my blood, sweat, and tears spent to be able to purchase what I have, and like the majority of Americans, no one is going to steal it if they can stop the punk from doing so.

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   5. Above comment written by Allen on February 14th, 2008 at 3:28 pm (replies, if any, are attributed separately above).

6. Yes, and now some nut just shot a bunch of students at Northern Illinois University. ALSO, a man just stabbed three people, killing them, with a knife! So, lets hear the out cry against knives. Remember OJ using a knife? LETS hear the out cry! No more butcher knives in the kitchen or else where.

   It isn’t the weapon they use, people kill people! Autos, bats, axes, guns, knives, etc, etc. The list can go on. Lets get these nuts and house breaking punks off the streets where they can’t hurt people, using the weapon of their choice. How about it? Are you for that?

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   6. Above comment written by Allen on February 14th, 2008 at 6:47 pm (replies, if any, are attributed separately above).

7. Of all the things you listed, Allen, only guns have as their first and only purpose TO KILL.

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   7. Above comment written by slim on February 15th, 2008 at 9:30 am (replies, if any, are attributed separately above).

8. Allen,

   We have laws about drugs because of the potential harm they can do to society. Guns have proven themselves time and again to be of greater harm than good - there are many more innocent people killed then criminals killed during the commission of a crime.

   We just have some weird attachment to guns in this country that makes us blind to the harm they do because some day some “scumbag” might break into your house.

   I have had break-ins, had my house’s back door smashed in and many items taken. Were those items valuable enough to me to even consider taking a human life? NEVER. Nothing in my house is irreplaceable but the living beings within it, and I will not risk any of them on the off-chance that someday I might need to scare off a burglar. Want to protect yourself from property crimes? Buy insurance.

   I still maintain guns fill some psychological hole, paper over some fear of society in their owners. I really do pity anyone who feels the need to own one - especially someone who has never been the victim of a violent crime and so has no legitimate “if only…” history to reach back to.

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   8. Above comment written by slim on February 17th, 2008 at 3:39 pm (replies, if any, are attributed separately above).

9. I can understand your point of view, but can you be 100% positive that the burglar is NOT going to do you any harm? I pity anyone who feels that they do not want to protect themselves and their loved ones.

   Any firearm is a tool, and yes, it is a very dangerous tool, lethal when used incorrectly, or sometimes correctly. I guess all/most law enforcement people carry them to fill some psychological hole?

   Neither one of us will change our views on owing personal firearms, but not all people who own firearms are criminals, nor do they own them for psychologically reasons.

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   9. Above comment written by Allen on February 18th, 2008 at 3:18 am (replies, if any, are attributed separately above).

10. Cops carry them so that the state has the ultimate control, something I’m not completely happy about - I preferred the old British method of nightsticks only. And, since so many guns kept in houses are used offensively by and/or against people who live in those houses,* I prefer to protect my family from all guns, which includes keeping guns out of my home.

    I can remember my mother kicking an old college friend of she and my Dad’s out of the house because he had a concealed carry permit and refused to leave the gun either in his car or lock it in the safe at my Dad’s office. I agree with her sentiment wholeheartedly.

    *For every time a gun is used in a home in a legally-justifiable shooting in the U.S., there are 22 criminal, unintentional or suicide related shootings.

    The presence of a gun in the home triples the risk of a homicide in the home.

    The presence of a gun in the home increases the risk of suicicde five-fold.

    I know we will continue to disagree, Allen, but given those statistics I just cannot see how keeping a gun in the home is worth the risk.

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    10. Above comment written by slim on February 18th, 2008 at 3:43 pm (replies, if any, are attributed separately above).